Over the last couple of weeks, I have been asking my friends (both men and women) who paid and who should pay for first dates. Almost everyone said men in their experience paid for first dates, although most of my women friends added that they reached for the wallet and offered to chip in. The one person who didn’t say “men” said that whoever asked for the date paid (or at least should pay) for the date.
I looked into the research more to see how dating has changed in the past few decades. In the 1980’s, men and women both expected gender differentiated roles on dates. Paying for dates was generally considered a masculine behavior. A shift started to happen in the 1990’s when dating became a little more egalitarian. Although men were still generally expected to plan and pay for dates, women who paid for dates became much more common. In one study, 72% of men had been on a date where the woman paid, and 76% of women daters footed the bill at least once also (Lottes, 1993).
Then I asked my friends, “How long do men generally pay for dates if the relationship continues?”…(Click here to continue reading).
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This is another indicator of how even tho it is slowly changing, we still don’t live in a 100% equality society (where men and women are concerned).
There have been countless discussions on this subject on the eharmony threads and I think it is running about 90% where women think men should pay for the first date.
As for struggling students or one makes more than the other, that should be irrelevant. Now maybe the struggling student is male, so does that mean he has to foot the bill where the woman in question choses a high end place to eat? Or how about those high priced girly drinks?
As someone stated: if I suggest she pay or chip in, and she thinks that’s an outrageous idea, then to the curb she goes. I’ve been called cheap in the past because of this. In that case I happened to find out she had $23,000.00 in her chequing account and I had $100.00. Her excuse for not chipping in? She didn’t go to the bank to get money out. So the next time we went out and got to the ticket window: I said “I only have enough for one ticket” WHY she asked? Because I didn’t go to the bank…….(yeah, that went over well lol)
We’re equal but we aren’t equal. Women should offer to help with the tab but the man should decline. A guy that lets me pay half the bill isn’t trying to impress me.
“tzaz
September 27, 2011 at 8:50 pm
We’re equal but we aren’t equal. Women should offer to help with the tab but the man should decline. A guy that lets me pay half the bill isn’t trying to impress me.”
……………..
It is because people like tzaz exist _enmasse_ that the equality _experiment_ is a failure.
(Truly intelligent people knew it was doomed to failure from the start for bio- determinist reasons.)
Now it has simply become a question of “how to get back to the drawing board”.
The collapse of the american led west might help get back to the DrawBord.
If not men are doomed.
…Doomed because people like tzaz exist as the overwhelming majority of the population (and that is because of bio determinism).
What is wrong with the man paying all the time.especially if he loves the woman he is with.unless she insists on it,what is he cheap.
No Yvan, he is not necessarily cheap. Just like you are not necessarily a user. When I (a man) is “expected” to pay, by the women not ever offering to pay, I begin to feel like a wallet with legs.
Yvan…why can’t a woman pay…is she a user?
what’s wrong with the woman paying for her portion? what is she? cheap? men shouldnt have to pay a free meal for a woman who may not even call him back.
women can easily go on a date for a free meal.
men already have to ask women out which is wrong also
women having dating really easy
What is wrong with the woman paying all the time? Especially if she loves the man she is with. Unless he insists on it, what is she cheap?
Well put, Manphiso, dont’ ya just love it when “equality” gets thrown back in their faces? And I usually find the ones who talk the most about things being equal are usually the ones to go back to “traditionalism” when faced with something they don’t like.
yvan maybe he is on a limited budget.
If men are going to be expected to pay all the time, then let’s revive ALL male dominance.
Every first date I’ve been on has been splitting the bill. I didn’t realize that was out of the ordinary, still.
It would usually be:
First two dates, Dutch. Then, back and forth paying for stuff, depending who suggested it.
women want and nowaday take equality, now take your turn and foot the bill will(emina)
I never saw a woman pic up the tab. never. that will be the day !
This is were culture plays a roll, most, not all, but must Latin women expect the man to pay and that’s just natural cause in our culture you (the man)pays, if you don’t have money then don’t invite- simple. I personally feel that if you interested on a woman, then you should pay for dinner, this shows initiative and class. Openness is the key, I feel that if you don’t have money but are still interested then you should communicate that, if she don’t like you cause you have no money then she was not worth dating. If you do have money and do go out on a date and you don’t have a connection during dinner, then just let her know at the end of the night after all has been paid, why? because you are a gentleman and a man. later on as you get comfortable with each other and there is a mutual interest, the woman should step up and help pay the bill, I said HELP pay not take the responsibility for the bill. I have been invited out to dinner as a gesture of appreciation by women and they have paid, this is ok, because it’s been a gift as a thank you or romantic gesture, if I try to impose my wallet on this, it will make me look like an ass and ruin the gesture, this just bring me to the point that there needs to be a balance when in a committed relation ship. If the women never wants to pay for anything or refuses, then she’s just inconsiderate and a gold digger and I don’t tolerate that. My point is that if you are inspired to pay for your date, just do it, don’t ruin it just cause you think the bill should be broken up in two, if you invite you pay. just my thoughts on this…
Hi Oliver,
I do agree with every thing you said.Good for you.Hope your life is good.Enjoy!!!!!!
Regards
Mariane
Yvan, didn’t you read the paragraph above your comment. She has $23,000,00 in her checking account and he only has $100.00 and you still think he should pay? They can aleast go dutch. I hope I never meet a girl like you. MONEY HUNGRY AND CHEAP!
I have gone out MANY times in past 2+ years I’d day about 7% of woman offer to pay (their half. If I do not see a future I allow them to pay, otherwise I decline
I always offer to pay for dates (first or otherwise). If the woman offers to pay either her share or for the whole date, I’ll first tell her she doesn’t have to. But if she insists, then I won’t object. If she really wants to pay for her share, it would probably come off as insulting if I didn’t let her.
For the first date I believe the man should pay. First I’m assuming he setup the date in the first place and it seems silly in that situation not to pay for the initial date. But I do think that a women should pay every once in a while as it should not be a given that the man should pay every time. But if the excuse as a man is I don’t have any money then maybe you should stay home
Really it’s not even about money to me because when women pays on occasion it shows that she appreciates the fact that I pay most of the time. How well you are loved, treated, supported and respected by a woman is more important than how much she is willing to pay for dinner anyway.
Lastly, everyone is different and for some people this issue is not only important but might be an actual expression of love for them so a better question is ask how important is it to each of you and figure it out in the beginning.
I think it is so sad the lack of honorable men that a woman can admire and respect who posted on this site. One male blogger goes on to say a classy woman pays her dinner???
I grew up in a family where men are family men who do not abandon their families and work to support their wife and children whom they respect. I was schooled by my father that a real man who is marriage material goes to a woman’s area, plans the date and is happy to pay because he is discerning marriage and wants to be a family-man in his future. The woman allows him to give because she is discerning him as a protector and a family man.
Today there are so many men and women who come from divorced homes where a boy grows up not knowing what an honorable familyman is. The women pay their share of the dinner on the date because they don’t know what it is to trust a man.
I let a man pay for dinner because I am allowing him to be the man in the relationship. I am also giving him a signal that I respect him as a real man. It is a man’s job to be a future family man and discern whether a nice girl is a possibility for marriage. I would never in a million years pay for dinner unless the man was my boyfriend. The men who post that women are opportunistic probably come from dysfunctioinal and divorced homes where they have no idea what a real lady and a real gentleman is. There mothers probably never had a husband that she could trust with her life. These posts just show the breakdown of the family – so sad…
eHarmony should pay for the first date.
It,depends.If the date goes well and I like her I’ll pay otherwise we split it
After reading through nearly all the comments, there are a few valid points on both sides. I met a female off one of these dating sites awhile back and she complained she had had to pay for a few dates with other guys she met off the site. This frustrated her, and refused to pay for anymore dates. Now I pose a question for the women because I know you’re all thinking that the guys were being “cheap”; how do think it feels to be a guy, continually pay for the first and second dates, and then get told some comment that ends that particular dating cycle? YOU WOULDN’T KNOW! It’s funny though, there was a study done and aired on Discovery awhile back called “The Science of Sex Appeal”. In one of experiments, they walk around New York City, if I recall correctly, with 3 full length photos of 3 different guys and asked women to rank them. The results were: A, B, C. They then took the same photos but with they’re jobs and income on the card and asked women to rank them a second time. The results were C, B, A or C, A, B. So, of course it’s referenced that it’s because men are supposed to be the “providers and protectors” and that’s where the change comes in. If that’s the case, go back to being house wives. So why is it when a guy uses the “feminist movement” as a reason not to pay is the movement “crap” or why is he “cheap”? You can’t pick and choose when you want the benefits of feminism.
Regardless, as a guy, when a girl offers and is actually ready to separate herself from her money to treat me, then I know she isn’t in it for a free meal or two.
Actually, a first date for me is usually a meet and greet. It that is the case, I believe we should do separate checks. I am willing to continue to do that in order to establish first a friendship. If things progress to something deeper, then taking turns, sharing the responsibility of paying is essential. Sharing the responsibility of paying is a way to demonstrate care and affection.
Yvan, didn’t you read Michael’s comment. The girl has $23,000.00 in her checking account and he has $100.00. They can aleast go dutch. I hope I never meets girls like you. CHEAP!
If men and women are equal then they should be equally able to pay for the date.
I actually had this conversation with my ex’s grandmother. She told me that a man should pay when dating but when it gets more serious (living together, marriage, engaged) that they should both chip in. This made a lot of sense to me. You definitely want to feel secure that a man can take care of you, and can manage his money well for when your unable to work for a while (pregnant). Men still do make on average more then woman at the same job.
On the other hand, like in Michael’s case, if you’re not making much, i think it would be good for the man to initiate a convo about money before making any plans to go out. That way it’s clear from the beginning and you can even keep the plans on the cheaper side, like taking walks, going for a swim, playing games, etc.
Personally, i find it attractive when a man pays tho i do feel compelled to chip in, even when i have very little. I think paying is a good way to make your lady feel like a lady tho. It definitely adds to the security she’d feel with you. I think 50/50, but in the old-fashioned sense, in that a man will take care of her woman outside of the house and a women will take care of her men inside the house.
I dont mind paying the first time especilly if i ask someone out.But i usually date accordinally to what my check account say. A good balance it is what ever(still not paying over $35 for dinner on a first date). Kinda low fast food or such, i pull that grab a bit to eat line qick.
I still wont let my date go outrageous with big tickets items or if she needs appertizers plus more.. Then i tell her to flip the bill. A more established date im willing to dig a lot deeper in my pocket book for them..
Another thing i never date a female who think its a guy job to pay for the date because that is what they will always expect. Im flipping the bill because i ask her out. If she is asking me out i always ask are you paying? If she said yes than its a deal, no then i ask why are you asking then.
The point is to be straight up and honest. I had dates to ask me out just because they was too broke to see stuff or just wanted to get out the house. I strated to end that qickly. Also stay away from broke females.
I agree with Michael. A girl that expects the man to pay for everything is often a gold digger and needs to go to the curb. Women want equality–but when it comes to dating they often cop out and expect everything from the man.
I actually try to fight for the bill. Heh heh heh. As an independent woman, it’s my pride and honor to be able to take a man out to eat. If he insists, I’ll just tell him that he can flip the bill next time. I am, by no means, rich at all since I’m only a small town waitress. I can put aside a little extra money for going out for a good time. That’s no problem for me
As a woman I see this in multiple ways. I do believe a woman with a secure bank account should step up and help out but there is more to it. If I am uncomfortable with a guy I will usually INSIST on paying my share because I don’t want him thinking his is buying more than a meal. There is nothing worse than a man who thinks you owe him something because he paid for dinner. If I am comfortable with the guy I will often let him pay for dinner without insisting too hard. If he keeps coming around then I will be more open with my wallet. Keep in mind many successful women have to worry about deadbeats living off of them. They want to insure they are getting a guy who pays his own bills and not looking for a sugar momma.
No wonder I don’t get ‘dates’ at sites like this … phew. Any man who wants to argue with me about me paying my own way, any man who wants to ‘take care of me’, any man who wants to be treated like the great provider and protector of little old me (and I gather I should be properly grateful too) … yes, to the curb with him.
Men in the United States are still overwhelmingly wedded to patriarchy and their superior position in the natural order of things. Sadly, the same is almost as true of the women, who also believe men should run the show and pay the piper. How immature, how senseless, how destructive of true friendship and intimacy, to insist on role-playing rather than genuine human communication — but it’s personal choice, isn’t it?
If all this is so important to someone — and yes, it is to me; I will not be treated like a character in someone else’s script — why on earth not talk about it *first*? I am happy to say: first date is pay-your-own-way; don’t like it, don’t date me.
Women who feel otherwise, why not just say so beforehand? Give the man a chance to know where he stands and he can either rejoice that you are the willing to play the part he has written for you or leave you on the shelf. Men, either way, just say so too: I will be paying and if you don’t like that we are not meant for each other — or I believe in equal partnerships so let’s start off that way and if you disagree we are not meant for each other.
What is the point of waiting for the bill and then anybody having to feel that they are being exploited by someone after a free ride, or that they are not getting the free ride they so obviously deserve, or that they (a man expected to pay, a woman not ‘allowed’ to pay) are not respected as an equal?
It’s obviously important to many people (me included). Why on earth not just get it straight first? A vegan wouldn’t agree to go to a steakhouse on a first date, a socialist wouldn’t go to a Tea Party rally, a Roman Catholic wouldn’t go to a Baptist revival meeting. Why would a man who demanded the prerogative of paying go out with a woman who believes she is his equal, or a man who did not want to be exploited go out with a woman who demanded financial tribute from men, etc etc etc?
it’s obvious that people have many different views on this…the ONLY thing i’d say is…talk about it before you go out with that potential person. if you both are interested enough, you will figure out a way to make it work before getting to the awkward part. if not, don’t go on that date!
Ladies, think of it from the guy’s perspective for a minute.
Guy goes on 50 dates before finding “the one” that he wants to marry. If each date is dinner-and-a-movie type, with dinner for two, drinks, movie tickets, snacks, etc…. Say $100 for each of the 50 dates.
That’s $5000 just to find the girl that he wants to marry. Much less the time and effort in planning and preparing.
If you’re unwilling to share in the cost of finding “the one”….
You have a problem, and it’s not the guy’s problem, it’s you.
I went out this evening on my first e-harmony date. Yes I am older, (older not dead!) I understand the arguments on this issue. However I could not look my date in the face if I had her pay even her share let alone mine. She offered to split the bill, but not in my world. Yes people’s pay is going backwards in certain areas of the nation, including mine, however if you want to date a lady, you have to show at least some decency and treat her like a lady. If she is a real lady, she will do just what my date tonight did, and offer to pay towards it, when that didn’t work she offered to pay the tip. Thank you for the offer, but not in my world. Sorry ladies I do not care how liberal you are, I still believe a woman deserves a certain amount of respect, and men should be given the same amount of respect back. If you do not like the way she acted on the date, date someone else, its an investment in your life, guys!
D I actually agree with you, I can’t believe where our society is going. Does anyone wonder why the divorce rate is so high?
If a man cannot afford to pay for a date with a woman then he should not even be thinking about dating…period. Obviously he needs to focus on school, or his career, or whatever it is that is keeping him from being financially secure enough to treat the object of his affection to a nice evening. Wake up ladies! A real man knows this & would never let you pay the bill for a date. That’s the trademark of immature little boys who have no respect for you or themselves. The guy should expect to pay every time. Now if we decide once in a while to pay the bill, that should be a nice surprise that he will definitely appreciate…but NOT expect to be the norm from then on. Men like to provide for women. It’s in their DNA. Paying for a man is essentially taking away a very important part of their psyche. And by the way pretending to pay, or offering to chip in is lame & transparent. It also conveys that you are OKAY with not being treated well because you don’t think that you’re worthy of receiving anything nice. Not a good way to start a relationship…it will only get worse as time goes on.
This isn’t about being ABLE to afford the date, it’s about not being looked at as a wallet with legs, which is no more valid than a guy looking at you as a two breasts and no brain.
For me, respect from a man is letting me pay my share. It feels disrespectful to assume I have less interest in the date, in equality, in pulling my weight. I do not get offended if a man offers to pay. (You guys have it hard, trying to figure this all out when obviously different women react different ways!) But I would be offended if he would not let me pay my own way after I said I would. I would know then we had no future. I believe there are real differences between men and woman, and I like those differences! But traditional gender roles and just old fashioned and out of date. I need someone more modern and secure in themselves.
Dave from 8/26/11, I think I love you! You have got to be a baby boomer too. MEN read Dave’s message. You young guys can learn a lifetime of trial and error from this man. You obviously are confused about and mistrusting of women and, I might suspect, of yourselves as well to be choosing a date with women that you have to feel that way about. Be more careful. It’s OK to be alone for a while until you find someone there may be a possible relationship with in the future. That way you will WANT to impress her without feeling taken advantage of. Have some compassion and consideration. GROW UP. If I met men like you, I would walk out of the restaurant and hail a cab home. Yes with my own money.
There is a very good reason why 90% of women have the expectation of men, to cover the expenses associated with a date. Women love to be pampered and feel special. Men on the other hand love to feel appreciated especially for their efforts. When a woman is treated special, she feels she matters. As a result, she becomes receptive to the source of the attention being showered upon her. Men ultimately, live for the receptive attention of a woman. This is the magical experience of dating, when both parties come together willingly. If I went out on a date with a man, that held the attitude…”she can buy herself dinner” I hoped he enjoyed my company, as that would be our last interaction. Not attempting to stray off topic, but this is no different then a woman is expecting to be wooed with foreplay. An unfortunate reality is, many men are clueless to what women want. As a woman, I want to experience the mating dance. The energy surge created is amazing, best of all everyone wins. It`s a man`s role to make his potential partner, “WANT” to become receptive to him. If he is sucessful….his employed techniques have served him well. In the end you reap what you sow. How many ladies out there would like hold open a door for their date, as he proceed ahead of you? How about proposing on a bent knee to a man? I can see how same sex dates may struggle with this situation. If a man has issues picking up the cost of a date, perhaps he should opt for a glass of water and a walk around the block. It`s men who just don`t seem to get it, who whine about spending $$$ on a date. No wonder they`re so jaded, they are failing miserably. It`s these types of men, who need to take a peek in their pants to remind them what their all about. Men wake up!!!
I am AWAKE and I am listening ! I agree. Hurrah…. finally someone who shares the same opinion, I though that I was antiquated for a while.
Is this even a question?
If people are asking themselves who should pay, then they should not even be dating in the first place.
I think it comes down to upbringing and manners. If we meet for coffee, chances are I have my coffee when I get there and buy it. If you ask me out on a date, I offer to pay for my portion, but to me asking indicts your desire to take me out (which means paying too). If I asked you out, I’d pay, but if the guy says he’ll pay I’d likely let him out of respect. These are not tests. I don’t discard a date becasue of how he repsonds. It simply indicts part of his manners and upbringing to me. I had a serious relationship with a guy who forgot his cash and asked me out to a jazz club with a cash cover and a 2 drink minimum each and no food and I had to pay for his cover and my drinks, and go home hungry. He was very apologetic the next day though, and we had a great dinner. He was a very loving man. I think for anyone to make a judgement about a person based on this one factor alone is shallow and silly. A person can not be summed up by how the handle paying for a first date.
Like most women, you exploit a well-known (at least well-known to men) loophole: Women rarely ask men out on first dates. So the, ‘whoever asks, pays’ rule is geared to benefit women. You know it’s true.
I was raised to be independent and treat women equally. If that somehow indicates that I was raised improperly, then so be it. If anything, expecting a man to pay because he asked you out indicates a poor upbringing. Mother forgot to teach her daughter how to be independent. Sad.
I always pay for the first date and every date even into the years. I have had women pay for my dinner after many dates and I consider this to be a sign of desired friendship and thats all between us, (sad). When a woman thanks me for the fact that I payed, I mention that her company was well worth any cost associated to it and thank her for her time. Take advantage of me please, I say. I know when to draw the line I just do not say so .
To be honest , If a woman pays I feel my manhood has been stripped of me!! This is how I feel, always have. It makes me feel cheap and uncaring. Even if the woman earns twice my earnings I still show respect. I never go on a second date with that woman who pays for our first date. Worse yet is when they pay for their half !!! Like I will pay for it do not worry. Throwing her carefully calculated half of a bill in cash onto the table top is insulting to some and I am one of they.
I agree that men are expected to pay for the first date. But after that, it would be great if women chip in as well. If a woman offers to pay for something, I find her even more attractive.The worst case is when you go for 3-4 dates and woman does not offer to pay even a penny for anything. After all, no man wants a gold digger in the long run