This is a very interesting/complicated issue and I checked out the boards of Advice for the temperature on this one. My initial reaction: it shouldn’t really matter who makes less or more, and if a woman happens to bring in a higher income than her partner, it shouldn’t get in the way of a developing relationship.
We had a nice, healthy debate in the office about this. Some thought a man may feel inadequate if he dates a woman who makes more money. I also heard the opinion that most women were not going to want to be with a guy less accomplished, because it is simply not attractive and they may not want to be the “bread winner.” I am sure that is true in some cases.
So I pondered about this some more, and read lots of advice board comments — which happily leaned more in the direction that I do.
I do not think you should turn a guy down simply because he makes less than you do. There are many things more important than his bank account — like his character. If you meet a fantastic, honest, ambitious guy who doesn’t pull in the big bucks because he is a teacher at a public high school, should you continue dating him? I say YES. Money isn’t the end-all be-all and the only means to a fulfilling relationship.
Of course it isn’t that simple (what ever is!?!). If the guy you start dating likes to play a lot and work occasionally (and has no problem with you footing the bill more than half of the time), this would end up in the “dating don’t” category for obvious reasons.
Would you rather have lots of money and be alone … or share your life with an amazing person who might not be as blessed as you are in the bank account arena? I would go for the latter arrangement, personally. In any case, it’s a little food for thought and my point is to not write off a guy solely because he makes less than you do.
I’d love to hear about your experiences with dating and money issues!
Grant Langston — Vice President, Content and Customer Experience
Jeannie Assimos, — Director of Content
Marni Battista — Relationship Expert
Monique A Honaman — Author
Dr. Seth Meyers — Licensed clinical psychologist
Sarah Schmermund, M.A. — M.A.
“If the guy you start dating likes to play a lot and work occasionally (and has no problem with you footing the bill more than half of the time), this would end up in the “dating don’t” category for obvious reasons.”
So if the gal I start dating likes to play a lot and work occasionally, and has no problem with me footing the bill more than half of the time, I should immediately put her in the “dating don’t” category? Don’t most women automatically expect the man to pay?
Anyway… Based upon MY life-experience that seems awfully hypocritical; women have expected me to work most of the time and foot the bill all of the time, while they played most of the time. And when they had to work, especially when I expressed any displeasure with the former, and oh-the-horror declined to continue, OH MAN, they made sure I paid the ultimate price!
BUT perhaps my life-experience is just unique.
“Would you rather have lots of money and be alone … or share your life with an amazing person who might not be as blessed as you are in the bank account arena? I would go for the latter arrangement, personally. In any case…my point is to not write off a guy solely because he makes less than you do.
Again, based upon MY life-experience, that makes you a very rare woman; nearly all have judged me on the dimensions of my bank account, and in pre-ex days its “accessibility.” Now, after my exes have emptied it completely, I’m considered a worthless write-off.
“Would you rather have lots of money and be alone … or share your life with an amazing person who might not be as blessed as you are in the bank account arena?”
I’d rather share my life with an amazing woman but my bank account is cursed, so no amazing woman will share her life with me, thus I’m alone and apparently will be until I have lots of money. BUT when I do have lots of money again, based upon MY life-experience, I think I’d rather be alone than be with a woman who’d have written me off, certainly not with one who did. Though, I’m told by women that makes me “bitter and jaded,” so perhaps even then I’ll still be alone. Perhaps being alone isn’t such a bad thing, but still, I’d rather share my life with an amazing woman. I can still dream, can’t I?
I find this topic one that I can relate to…Because I’m an independent self sufficient woman, many men see me (or at least that’s what I’m currently experiencing) as a meal ticket. Do I let that happen…yeah my bad I do. Its such a delimma for me because I am so accustomed to doing this that I’m uncomfortable having a man pay for everything. When I read “advise” in multiple places it says that men feel less a man if they don’t show their ability to finance our activities. I’d love to have someone who is on a 50/50, 60/40, 40/60…whatever..the point is that I believe firmly that money is NOT everything and that we are so easily judged by such. The first thing a man usually asks me is what I do for a living..I downplay what I do because I don’t know this person enough to know their “motive” for asking. My experiences have made me paranoid about the motives behind the question.
I’m an attractive, successful, confident woman who has alot to offer a relationship WELL without finances being in the mix. But who’s looking past the pocket book? I think the question of finances should be an off-limits subject for any date! Wouldn’t men feel the same way??? I’m almost embarassed to tell men what I do or where I live (general area) because I may be prejudged. What I really want is to be in a relationship where I could live in a shack with a dirt floor as long as I have a man to walk on the floor with me. The joy and love of being together must outway any status, finances or outside influences.
I’m still searching but does my IDEAL man even exist anymore?????
Suggestion??
I am in the same boat as you are. There is one category of men that are interested in me and those are the ones that see me as a meal ticket. I can just about see dollar signs in their eyes. They don’t get very far with me, thats for sure.
I also am constantly downplaying what I do. I use to say proudly I am an attorney and I run my own firm, then would leave it at I run a business, now I’m down to saying I manage an office. Otherwise, the other type of guys, the ones that are intimidated by my profession wouldn’t even give me a chance. It is really sad.
I wouldn’t look at a man solely based on money he makes and I could date someone who makes less than me. It seems to be the men that have more of a problem with this. Because of my profession, many men automatically assume I make more than them which is rarely even the case because I don’t have benefits and running a business is very expensive not to mention 100K in student debt.
I want to make sure a man has a profession and makes enough money to support himself. I’m not going to support some unemployed guy. But other than that, thats the extent to which I factor in money. It seems to be the men that have a problem feeling like the man with a successful driven independant woman.
I am like you Jeannie, I date a man for who he is not what he has. Try to show that man, though, that you are not there to pick his wallet apart, when he’s already jaded and pointing his finger at me, since all the women before me proved him right.
How do you get out of the stigma that you are not like the controlling, money grabbing women that were there before you?
I see your point Co6aka. I have seen it all too often. There is a very big percentage of women out there that gives us, the honest hard working women, a very bad name.
I am debating this exact issue right now and I my curiosity was piqued when I saw this post.
I am a successful, independent woman who makes good money and have a great career. I have been on a few dates with this guy who is a public school teacher (how did you know ehar? are you watching me?
who makes significantly less money than I do. He’s otherwise, interesting, kind, thoughtful and very appreciative of me. But, our lifestyles are different (a factor of finances) and our life experiences are different (a factor of exposure), our educational backgrounds are different (which often also leads to where we end up financially).
I know he’ll never be able to afford eating at a really nice restaurant (even if we split the bill) or take a luxury vacation to somewhere. I don’t mind paying my share but I do mind footing it for another person. While it’s not a requirement that he splurge on me (I’m not an extravagant person with excessive spending issues or anything) don’t we all like to be treated every once in a while to something pretty, something nice. Should I compromise on these needs to be with this person? Does it have to be a nice, kind, thoughtful, caring guy or a jerk with a good bank account?
In a longer term committed relationship this can become a BIG deal. Income affects where you can live, your social life, what you can afford, how much you can save for retirement etc. etc… Things get even more complicated when you have kids. And how many men feel safe in a situation where the woman makes significantly more than they do? And will it eventually show up (or ahem, not show up) in the boudoir?
I don’t have the answers. But, I can say this from experience – it not easy to find love if you’re a capable, independent and successful woman.
“Should I compromise on these needs to be with this person?”
Is it a need??
If you find a man that makes the experience of everyday life better, then what NEED would you have more than that? If we is willing to go 50/50 on the bill and pay the whole tab every now and then, and everything else is great, what are you complaining about? He can’t run off to Croatia with you? He can’t buy you shoes or jewelry? That’s a need? If there are things that he just can not afford to do, but you want to do with him, then pay for it. You seem to be fine if he flips the bill for you- why be so hypocritical to not be willing to do so for him? Otherwise there are a lot of really great restaurants, activities, and vacations I’m certain he could afford to split or pay for in total that simply experiencing together can make so much more rewarding than doing something that costs more than he can afford. If you can make up the difference between what he can afford and what you want but you are unwilling to do so that is all you. Now if HE was to be the one to request those spurges, that would be an issue, but if he doesn’t, why not?
Vera – you don’t want a guy who is jaded, so I hope you can find someone who won’t judge and bring his baggage into your relationship.
Looking for Love – I do think there is a perfect match for you out there! It sounds like you know what you want and that is half the battle. He will turn up soon – keep the faith!
I struggle with this too. I don’t make six figures, but I have a professional career and worked hard to get it. While it’s possible that a family could live off my salary, I don’t think I could afford a house-hubby even if he was an awesome man. Then there’s the issue of whether he’s really an adult or an overgrown kid… which I think is a big part of it. To me, a man needs to have a respectable job that requires some combination of skills, training, and education, ex: teacher/nurse/etc.
I meet my hubby of 1 1/2 years on eHarmony but have 6 daughters coming into the world of relaionships. I can stand on my own two feet financially. Before eHarmony, I dated younger, older, richer, poorer, the highest educated and the dimwits. The dimwits were entertaining and the uber rich were arrogant. That doesn’t mean all guys in these catagories are a bust. However, the most compatible man (my husband) is almost equal in financial rank. Yes, this could change; did I say 6 daughters? We are raising very expensive offspring. He has 3 girls and I have 3 girls and they all require special handling in their own unique way. Even though we are married, we expense our own children individually in certain circumstances. You have to look at the future when you get serious with a person.
Do you want to give your kid a new car when his kid drives a jalopy? Talk about causing friction in the family unit! On the flipside, if you marry too up, you may feel too dependent and could feel like you owe him something. Consider all aspects of life and financial commitments.
Start out on the same level and later, if things get better or worse, you can share in the joy and pain. A strong foundation will help you survive any down time.
I agree with Zora on some of her comments. I make a six digit income and therefore dating a man in my income and above is limited. However I will not date anyone making less anymore. I have tried but what happens is you emasculate them eventually, you alter your life style and can build resentment and sometimes they do expect that you are the provider. As for me, I personally don’t need a man to provide while I sit home eating bon bons but I don’t like the idea of taking care of a man with limited potential. It’s different if he had a set back in life, this happens such as the case in today’s economy. There are many people doing honorable, respectable jobs with salaries that just have a ceiling. That’s fine- I have tried for years and many many times to over look that. It has never worked. Even when I pay most of the time- I have to give up the things I like so they ‘don’t feel bad’. Either get over it and enjoy it with me- or you are not for me. It comes out in the bedroom where they have said they feel less of a man because they can’t do for me, of they are embarassed around my friends etc… I am lucky in the sense that being in the NY metro area there are high salaries- but I tell you what- the higher the salaries- the bigger the a-holes they are too… it’s a true trade off. That’s why I am still single. Good thing I have good friends
Good luck ladies- We all need it
My only comment is…do any of you nice ladies live in Michigan?
I would love to find an amazing woman who has similar values and interests, regardless of her financial status. To understand me, she will have had to have some success in life, but that success would not have to translate into money…..she would just have to be successful at something that really matters to her.
So this topic caught my interest.
Personally, it no longer bothers me to date women who make more income than me. At the same time though, it’s always been a bit of a double standard in dating.
About 70% of women that I have dated have expected me to flip the bill in just about everything. Dinners, movies, gas, even rent(the few that made it to the moving in part of a relationship). Granted, as i’ve gotten older, more and more women that i encounter would voice that they -want- to pay for things as well. While i may still pay for dinner most nights, it’s nice to have a woman from time to time say something along the lines of ‘you know what, i’ll pay this time’ or ‘you don’t always have to pay for everything you know.’
At this point, it’s not so much become emasculating for me to meet a woman who can support herself. It’s actually very refreshing meeting a woman who pays her own bills and offers to, even occasionally, treat -me- to dinner. It’s come to my attention though, that as women start to make more money themselves, they still want a man who makes more than them. Probably for the same reason another poster mentioned. To be taken out to nice dinners on occasion or well, whatever an occasional expensive event/gift would be.
I personally love my job, but it doesn’t pay a whole lot. To be more exact, i am in the army bomb squad(EOD). While i have supported myself for a long time, my job really only pays barely more than the average american income for 2010. And yes, i have been turned down after a woman figures out that ‘i don’t make enough to live up to her standards’. Or flat out told me that ‘even though you’re a great guy, being with you would force me to lower my standard of living.’
Personally, i believe this comes down to traditions instilled onto children, based on interaction they see between their parents, media and society, but that’s another topic completely.
I find comfort knowing there are others like me. I have a good job running a business I literally started in a basement! I find myself downplaying my position all the time, I even file out forms as an employee?! Somehow, it always gets out. I think perhaps the experience that goes along with it does affect who we can be with? I sometimes wish..I was just normal in the payscale we all know is there..I too have had men that I say lets fly to X next thing you know all trips are on my tab>>I am thankful for friends and family too!
Hi All. I am in the MIDDLE of this very debate. I have been seeing a successful, retired Marine who is in a second career. I am a successful woman who is developing a profit center within a privately owned firm and am looking at doubling my income from last year. (I did not starve in 2010…)
He SAYS he likes the fact that I have picked up certain expenses, insisted on paying certain bills on the weekends but he seems taken aback when I do use a ‘business ploy’ and grab the check.
I don’t know how to handle this. I am VERY successful and I WORK to be SUCCESSFUL. I am a single Mom and as such want my son raised to enjoy a certain lifestyle. I could personally care less what the man in my life makes as long as he has character, is trustworthy, reliable, genuine, loving and willing to show the same to my son.
Can a man feel something other than ‘not validated as a man’ when a woman can and does pay her own way? What is the real message. Pay your way or be dependant? We used to joke in graduate school that those who were the most successful had ‘wives.’ There are times in my life when I NEED A WIFE due to hectic scheduling and just being tired of making a living, grocery shopping, cooking, going to the cleaners and being Assist. Coach on the baseball team!
As a financial person, my choice of mate will not determine where I want my son to live, go to school, or associate with. The mate will provide me with love, emotional support and some relief from the bills… not necessarily a 50/50 financial arrangement
Oh…. fyi: what is the code “you don’t scare me?” I hear that A LOT.
Hi, I’m an educated man making an above average salary, but the woman I am with is a specialist doctor making about four times my salary. We’ve made it work through honesty and intellectual compatability.
She recognizes that within my domain I have much to teach her, and I feel the same way about her. Therefore, we are equals in at least one aspect of our lives. I’m not sure it would work between an intelligent and driven woman and a man who cannot or will not live up to a certain standard (excluding the financial renumeration).
As far as finances are concerned, when I take her out, we tend to go to cultural activities such as museums and concerts. I will take her out for dinner, but my specialty is hole in the wall restos that don’t cost much, but have good food. She is the one that will take us out to restos without prices on the menu and whatnot. Of course, she is totally allowed to take me to McDonalds if she chose (not that we eat at McDonalds).
Vacations are not a problem because she and I don’t stay at the Waldorf anyway. I can afford a share of any vacation we’ve been on so far, but if she proposed something far outside my means I would simply tell her that I would love to go, but I can only afford to contribute x amount of dollars. I would speculate that she would likely take me on such a vacation as a gift, and I would accept without feeling that she had somehow immasculated me.
The take away here is that if you are a woman making over $250,000/year, you’re are going to be limiting your pool of prospects significantly if you want to date a man that is your financial equal. It is better to look to men who enriches your life intellectually and emotionally, and have an early, frank conversation about what types of experiences you will take care of and what you expect him to take care of.
Hope that helps.